Greater Seattle Soccer League (GSSL) - Sold Out Podcast #17

Welcome to Episode #17 of the Sold Out podcast, where we interview league organizers across the country for tips on how to sell out and grow leagues.

In this episode, we’re joined by Joanne Levy, the Executive Director of the Greater Seattle Soccer League (GSSL), one of the oldest (est. 1976) and largest adult soccer leagues in the Seattle area. Joanne shares her unique journey from the entertainment industry to managing a league with over 4,800 members. She dives into the importance of community-building, addressing toxic sports culture, and implementing de-escalation strategies to create a safe and enjoyable playing environment. Joanne also highlights the role of technology and leadership in running a successful league and reflects on the importance of diversity and inclusion in sports.

This episode offers invaluable insights into creating a positive culture, using data-driven decisions for competitive balance, and fostering long-term success through strong leadership. Whether you're a league organizer or a sports enthusiast, this conversation will inspire and inform.

Key Takeaways:

• Cultural Transformation: Joanne emphasizes shifting GSSL’s culture towards de-escalation and accountability, implementing a formal player code of conduct to improve behavior on and off the field.
• Leveraging Technology: GSSL is rolling out a virtual player card system to track red and yellow cards more efficiently, ensuring accountability among players and enhancing fairness in games.
• Staff and Community Engagement: Joanne credits GSSL’s success to its loyal and passionate staff, along with initiatives that foster community, such as team manager meetings and inclusive events.
• Diversity in Leadership: Joanne advocates for more women and marginalized communities in sports leadership roles, believing it will positively impact the overall culture of sports organizations.

Listen to the full episode now!‍

Below is the full transcript from this episode. The Sold Out Podcast is available on Spotify and Apple, or you can watch the entire interview on our YouTube Channel!

Tune in every other week to hear AREENA interview the country's best league organizers about their success in selling out leagues consistently.

--

Podcast Transcript

Lance (00:01.38)
All right, today we have Joanne from GSSL. Thanks for being here, Joanne. So let's get started with some of the basics of where you're located and what leagues you're running, at what size, and how you got started.

Joanne Levy (00:12.832)
Sure. Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure and an honor to be here. My name is Joanne Levy and I'm the executive director of Greater Seattle Soccer League. I actually am fairly new to the organization. I'm coming on my year in October and we have five staff members, two of which have been here

one for 19 years and one for almost six years. They are really the heart and soul of this. So I want to make sure that I give them a lot of credit during this podcast. GSSL has been around for almost 30 years. It started as a volunteer organization and then just grew exponentially into an adult recreational league with over 4 ,800 members, both women and men. A big majority of our members

Lance (00:38.201)
Hmm.

Joanne Levy (01:03.789)
demographic is men, but we are trying to grow our women because we also do have women leagues as well. And we are mostly 11 v 11. We have some modified rules, but we have basically four divisions within each league. And we are pretty much have games every night except for Friday and Saturday. Monday is our busiest night.

Lance (01:28.186)
Got it.

So how many teams are coming out any given week?

Joanne Levy (01:34.348)
So Monday we have almost 27 teams. and then, so we have, we have quite a few teams, basically in each league, it can be from five to 11 teams and then divvied up between four divisions. And we have, every season. we have fall, winter, spring, and summer fall being our busiest. And then, summer being.

Lance (01:37.327)
Mm.

Lance (01:52.57)
Got it, okay.

Joanne Levy (02:03.073)
really popular as well.

Lance (02:05.018)
Got it, okay. So that's pretty much year round, very little breaks.

Joanne Levy (02:09.674)
Yep. staff would say they basically have no breaks and build around the GSSL schedule.

Lance (02:13.452)
I'm

Yeah, okay. And it's mostly men, but it's sort of these co -ed leagues with like structure around the number of women and men on each league, or are they sort of open anybody wants to play can play and then there you said there's some women's leagues as well or?

Joanne Levy (02:28.021)
So we have men's leagues and women's leagues. Now that said, a woman can play on any team she wants. We definitely have to be as equitable as possible. And then the hope is that as we grow in the next two to five years, we would offer coed leagues, more women leagues, and then grow our men's divisions as well.

Lance (02:49.262)
Okay, got it. And so how did you, so this thing's been around for a long time. Most organizers I talked to have not been around for that long. So I guess it was set up as a non -profit and it's been running for a while. And then how did you get looped into this?

Joanne Levy (03:04.852)
So those are all great questions. We actually are a 501C4, which is a little bit of a pickle. And because this is sort of an industry podcast, one the things that I would say is being a 501C3 is, I think, I believe a lot better because as a 501C4, it's a member -based organization where donations are not tax deductible. So currently, all of our revenue comes from our registrations. And it's really hard to get

Lance (03:10.073)
Okay.

Joanne Levy (03:34.611)
contributed income, which every other nonprofit have ever worked at, that's been a big part of the revenue. And so I feel as a 501c4, we leave a lot of money on the table because we want to put our members first always. And so while soccer, you know, it leads towards mental health and community and all the things that nonprofit really needs to do, we do all of that. But because of our specific status,

it makes it hard to do things like galas or fundraising events, because it really is important for a member to get back what they put into it. So if anyone was going to start a organization, I would say either be an S -Corp, LLC, or a 5 -1 -C -3.

Lance (04:20.634)
Okay, got it. Yeah, that's good advice. And then yeah, how did you get into this?

Joanne Levy (04:26.044)
So it's really interesting how I got into it. I have been a long time soccer player and I started from third grade, it's probably my best years, all the way through college to a small all women's liberal arts school and then semi -pro and recreational throughout my 30s and 40s. I'm aging myself right now because I'm old, but that's okay. It's good to have strong, wise women in the field.

Lance (04:38.422)
Thank

Joanne Levy (04:55.519)
so I actually, was in the entertainment industry. So I worked for MTV comedy central. I helped, start a nonprofit called F cancer. I'm not going to say the real word, but that it's a, still an amazing nonprofit that helps young adults, and do psychosocial support for cancer. And then I moved to Seattle. I became a mom.

Lance (04:55.54)
Yep.

Joanne Levy (05:24.101)
the best job ever, and I worked for an art academy, which I absolutely loved. And basically, I took the summer off to be with my daughter, and I thought, you know, what would I want her to pursue? What do I want to pursue? And sports has always been this passion of mine that I never really did outside of just being on the field. And so, GSSL was looking for a new executive director, and I was like, you know what?

I have no experience in sports. I'm a great business woman. I have lot of experience in community and technology and creative and business. So I was hoping that my acumen just as a worker would sort of at least, you know, get my foot in the door. So I, they sent out a newsletter to all their members because they are really community focused. GSLS is a wonderful organization that galvanizes their community. Their staff is from the community. The board is from the community.

And so I applied and it was pretty rigorous, the interview process, but GSSO really wanted to do things differently. They wanted a new outlook. They wanted to grow technically. They wanted to become more of a business structure that could learn from other industries. so, and I will say, to their credit, they really had a forward thinking look at what they wanted their leadership to be.

I also really, I mean, I know I may get some slack for this, but I think it's really important to have women leadership in sports. There's a, even to this day, there's a lot of toxicity in sports just in general. And I felt like they really looked at me as a person, you know, not as a woman, not as a former soccer player. And it helped that I was a woman because I do think that especially running

an organization that has mostly men, there is a bit of this toxic masculinity that really needs to be undone, especially as the younger generations come up. Gen Z has a very different outlook than, you know, millennials or, and even alpha has an even different outlook. So it's really, really important to kind of strive towards principles of equity, inclusion, fairness, nonviolent communication.

Joanne Levy (07:49.218)
and DAI. And so I think they really put that first and that's how I got the job.

Lance (07:57.274)
Nice. So what was it like then when you sort of came in, you know, considering, I guess, these cultural things that you're kind of talking about, was that within the group GSSO or are you saying that was more like within the community of players and what have been, what's your experience with that been and kind of how have you addressed or thought about changing a culture?

Joanne Levy (08:18.829)
So it's a great question. I'm gonna give you an answer that I truly believe. I think sports in general is a mirror and window into society. I think what is happening on the field is usually a microcosm of what is happening in society. And that's why I'm so passionate about sports. So what we noticed was, you know, after COVID, people were more stressed out, there was more violence on the field, people were really tight.

Lance (08:44.612)
Mm.

Joanne Levy (08:46.846)
money -wise, because of inflation, all of societal problems you could actually see coming out in the field. And so it wasn't just about curing what was happening at GSSL. It was looking at society's woes and seeing how is this manifesting within our members and how can we make it easier for them? What mental health resources do we need to give to them to make them not want to yell at the ref? What outlets do they need physically to

maybe combat some of the frustrations that's happening in society right now. And we leave politics off the field. Everyone is welcome. Everyone has different ideas, thoughts, and that is all welcome. Nonviolent communication, I think, is an important part of organizations in general. In sports, it's very physical, but there's also how do you treat your ref? How do you treat the other team members? And so...

Lance (09:37.7)
Hmm.

Joanne Levy (09:43.536)
We saw definitely an escalated level of violence since COVID, but again, it was a mirror into what was happening in society. know, people are frustrated, they're scared, they're coming out of this worldwide pandemic, and it was no different for our members. So my philosophy was, okay, how do we deescalate? Always, always deescalate. You know, we have a lot of issues where our members blame the refs, right? They say, well, the refs are there to keep us safe. The refs are there.

No, they're not. The refs are there to call a game fairly. It's your job to act like the adult that you are and practice good sportsmanship. And so we're really trying to keep people accountable and deescalate. And I think that's sort of what's going on in society as well.

Lance (10:30.212)
Yeah. Well, I think that's a, I mean, we've, I've seen that a lot. We at one point launched a bunch of basketball leagues across Texas. And I remember we were running them remotely. So we weren't always there, but we had those violent issues. We had people, I think the worst one was somebody grabbed a chair and hit somebody over the head with the chair and the police had called. So, I mean, we've seen a lot of that kind of stuff and have some of our own thoughts on like how to address it. have you found anything that's, that's worked really well, practically of like how you.

Joanne Levy (10:46.061)
we back.

Joanne Levy (10:50.022)
Mm.

Joanne Levy (10:55.135)
Yeah.

Lance (11:00.452)
how you deal with those things.

Joanne Levy (11:01.713)
Yes. So remember I've only, I'm having to be in here a year. So some of this stuff is about to roll out, but we've already seen massive changes. So one of it is we have an informal play of player code of conduct, which we're actually going to formalize. Basically it's going to be an agreement between all members of GSSL, all team managers that eventually we're going to roll it out in a way that, you know, similar to if you, if you go against the rules of the game.

Lance (11:16.068)
Hmm.

Joanne Levy (11:30.076)
you cannot go against this player code of conduct. And so it's, and I'd be happy to share it with you. You know, we're still working on it, but right now it's rolled out into all of our marketing materials. We're rolling out on our homepage with, we're doing a lot of technical changes. Cause one of the things that I noticed was that, you know, the, the product that we have, thanks to Kelly and Anissa, I have to give them a shout out there. long -term staff that has just been holding on the floor.

Also the executive director before me, she deserves a ton of credit. She really did all the hard work so that I can walk in and sort of make these cultural changes because the operations are so amazing. So I want to give credit where credit is due. But basically we want to roll out a player code of conduct that is, you can be penalized just as much as you can for going against an actual role in soccer. It needs to be part of the game.

Lance (12:24.698)
Hmm.

Joanne Levy (12:28.379)
we also are going to start including them in the waivers with our team managers so that before you even step on the field, you are agreeing to the specific player code of conduct. And that includes how you treat your teammates, it includes how you treat the other team, and it includes how you treat your referee. We also are rolling out a really robust technical system for red cards and yellow cards. So,

Lance (12:53.358)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Levy (12:54.294)
One the things that I noticed was technology is not necessarily inextricably tied to sports organizations. And that's something that I want to change at GSSL. Just because we're playing on the field does not mean that the digital world that is taking over shouldn't be part of our game. So we are actually working with this amazing partner, they're called Playbook, and they actually have a white labeled back end system that they work with a lot of sports teams and they're creating something brand new.

Lance (13:22.083)
Mm

Joanne Levy (13:23.929)
And basically what it's called, it is a virtual player card where, again, we want to keep everything equitable. So sometimes on digital, you know, maybe someone doesn't have a phone or doesn't have a computer, but it's really important to capture it digitally. So we are creating something called the virtual player card. And what that does is that keeps track of anytime someone gets a red card, a yellow card, and it has a backend data mechanism so that

You know, for example, if someone gets three yellow cards in a season, then that's an automatic red card. So right now, if you get a red or a yellow card, we're subject to the referee's report. And they do a fantastic job and it's very reliable. But I felt like there needed to be a way to historically capture that data. And then we're making red cards and yellow cards matter more. You know, there is a difference between

Lance (14:15.385)
Mm.

Joanne Levy (14:22.488)
you know, accidentally falling into someone and punching someone in the face. There is just no room or excuse for it. And just to clarify, we are an adult recreational league. So we're talking about adults that know better, that should know how to conduct themselves. And we're making it so that it's not part of the game. You know, I think there's been a lot of misconceptions that you're kind of entitled to violence when you play sports.

And the fact of the matter is you're not. You're there to play a sport, you're there to play it well, and it should be fun and safe, especially on the level that we're playing, which is recreational, even though our teams are pretty pro level. mean, they're really, really amazing skill level -wise. We're also trying to encourage our team managers to really be accountable. You you have someone that's hot -headed on the field, take them off. You know, don't let it escalate.

Lance (15:07.396)
Hmm.

Joanne Levy (15:19.873)
We're also rolling out a series of referee trainings so that they're better equipped to really just not put up with violent communication. And that could be anything. could be verbal, physical, language matters. And so making sure that our referees are treated with the utmost respect that they deserve.

Lance (15:38.724)
Yeah, so yeah, I'm like, I've got all these questions just thinking about my own experience, you know, playing. So the cards, and it sounds like part of it is yellow cards, red cards, you wanna really capture and utilize that data better than you have. I also thought I heard you say as well that you're basically going to start capturing information on stuff that's not just the rules of the game. Does that mean that when, let's say somebody...

Joanne Levy (15:52.792)
Yep.

Lance (16:04.12)
you're out there and my experience is these things, it never just goes from like people are playing to there's a fight. It's like you mentioned violent communication and it always starts there and chip, you someone's a little bit chippy and they come in and they say a little something and then it escalates and it escalates and it's back and forth and then you can end up with a full on brawl sometimes. like, let's say that scenario is happening at one of your matches. What happens now that's different is that somebody right off the bat if somebody says the F word and whatever,

you pause the game? you get the captain and you mentioned pulling somebody out? Are you enforcing that or like tactically what's happening to to I guess nip that in the bud?

Joanne Levy (16:43.602)
So great question. So just to be clear, like we are currently rolling this out, but the two ways I'm looking at it is qualitatively and quantitatively. So the first thing we're trying to do is change our culture to be a culture of de -escalation and accountability.

And how you really do that is you galvanize a community. You have team managers meet with other team managers. You throw the happy hour. You do the things that make people look at each other as people. So there's that sort of communal piece of it. And then there's the quantitative piece of it. There is the player code of conduct, which is clearly it's in every marketing email that goes out.

Lance (17:12.814)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Levy (17:26.39)
You are agreeing to this. It's in our waivers. So that is the hope is that we better train our team managers to not have it escalate. So right off the bat, if someone is yelling in the ref's face, if someone is using a racial slur, like that is not okay. Where I've really been surprised, you know, as a first time kind of sports organization leader is not just the violence on the field because I'm also a soccer player and trust me, I'm little, but I'm mighty.

but is the entitlement to violence, you know, is, well, the ref made a bad call, so I'm allowed to punch them in the face. No, you're not. And so whether or not I think that should be obvious, I think it's an expectation that has to be clearly communicated from leadership on down. Another piece that we are really working on and I'm really proud of is our board strategy. So in the past, our board has been small.

We've actually expanded it from five to almost 12 and 13 members. We're rewriting our bylaws to be steeped in a equitable and nonviolent culture. We also are having board members that are on the field, right? So they're agrees, they're team managers, they're one of the our new board member who I absolutely love. He's actually a mental health psychologist in sports.

Lance (18:43.034)
Thank

Joanne Levy (18:55.059)
So we really want to have a positive and safe environment because what we know about sports is that it is so important for mental health of our community. And we're one of the only adult leagues in the greater Seattle area. I we're servicing 4 ,800 people. And all those people, need us. They need this outlet of sports. They need this outlet of moving their body. we have like,

Lance (19:05.754)
Mm

Joanne Levy (19:24.595)
demographics that you don't usually see. one of our oldest leagues are 68 years old and plus. I mean, that is incredible. You know, I hope when I'm 60, I'm still out there running around. mean, these, these players are just incredible athletes. And so it really is galvanizing a marginalized community based on our age demographic and making it safe for them to play. That's huge.

Lance (19:50.946)
Yeah, think I echo that that we have older players as well. And when things get too heated, it's an uncomfortable, like they're not there for that, right? They've got sometimes grandkids and I mean, you can't, and I'll add one thing in my experience, which you, I'm sure, well, I'd be curious what your perspective is, but one of the biggest things we found for sportsmanship was actually kicking out teams. And that sounds really dramatic. there's this thing, I think that,

Joanne Levy (20:07.858)
Okay.

Lance (20:18.154)
I felt anyway in the early days which was like I need every team because every team means there's more people and like competitive balance is so important and if you don't have enough people then you might not have good matchups between teams and and it's you don't never want like you you need money to survive and pay the bills and you never want to like lose a team but that was like the most dramatically effective thing was to say hey here's our sportsmanship rules and we have in our system you know data to get like ratings on sportsmanship and

Joanne Levy (20:37.009)
So,

Lance (20:44.482)
And so it can be very clear and data -based, but like actually kicking them out and announcing that to the whole league and saying, hey, this team was removed because of this, this and this was the biggest like single thing we ever did that would change. And of course, you know, the team can come back and maybe it's just like one or two people and whatever, but like for the next season, I don't know. You guys have something sort of similar. You think about it in a similar way of, cause it feels dramatic and it feels scary to do that, but.

Joanne Levy (21:10.761)
I absolutely love that you brought this up because I actually have a really good example of this and it is such an important piece of being a leader in an organization. So when, now remember I came from a totally different world of sports organizations, right? I came from MTV, Comedy Central, know, creativity. Like it was completely different culture and vibe.

Okay, so I come to a sports organization and I am in absolute shock, not just of some of the play that was going on, but how my staff was being treated and spoken to. they're incredible because they kind of just took it. But in my mind, I was like, okay, if you're treating a staff member like this, how are you on the field? And so one of the biggest things I can say as

a leader in a sports organization is look at your staff, empower them, and see how they are being treated. And there should be a zero tolerance as to how they are being treated. And so we actually did have a team that wanted to play and they wanted to register, but it literally wasn't even their behavior on the field. It was how they were berating my staff, how they were talking down to my staff.

how they were expecting all these things, and we did not allow them to play, and they were out of GSSL. And I completely stand by that decision. And I think it's really important because I think my staff was almost surprised too, because in the past, you know, this is a recreational league, it needs to survive, you know, plus post -COVID, but you can't be penny wise and pound foolish. If you're letting in toxic teams,

one bad apple truly does ruin a bunch. especially, and your number one focus should be how is your staff being treated? Because they are working tirelessly. They're not getting the recognition they deserve. And so that is definitely something new that we've done, but also been really supported by the board. You know, I don't want to take full credit for this, but we have gotten to the point where, you know,

Joanne Levy (23:32.191)
If this is a team that does not embody our values and the way we want to grow, then they don't have to be in our league.

Lance (23:41.102)
Yep. Yeah. It's like, it's such an interesting dynamic because other, other teams or customers are also a part of the experience of the product for other customers. And so it's like letting them go or being strict with them may not, may seem sort of counterintuitive. but, and like you said, it affects your staff. I think that was something as well, that I was sort of surprised by, you know, just thinking about like rates for how people are paid and, and, and why and everything else. Sometimes referees are paid really well and it's, it's not because their knowledge always is like,

Joanne Levy (23:55.116)
Yeah.

Lance (24:10.424)
the most, it's not rocket science, but there is a lot of abuse that refs or other people have to take. And it's very, the times that I've been out there in different roles or whatever, can be very, very stressful to be a staff member. And yeah, and then it creates this bad cycle. You've got bad teams or people that are talking down to staff and talking to other teams and they're not having a great experience and your staff is super stressed out and that doesn't enable them to be their best.

Joanne Levy (24:11.596)
Okay.

Lance (24:37.646)
But yeah, it's an interesting dynamic because your customers are sort of the product for your other customers and also affect your staff in a way that's really intense. And that was a big challenge for me in this space that I hadn't thought about before entering it.

Joanne Levy (24:50.457)
Yeah, and I think it's a really important point because a lot of sports organizations, want to grow quickly and they want to grow fast. But sometimes it's better to grow smart and have the right demographic rather than this massive organization that you then can't control. There's all these problems.

Lance (25:07.002)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Levy (25:07.627)
big organization. mean, we really are one of the only two adult rec leagues in Seattle that is working the way we are and have as many offerings as we do. And so I think it's really important to lead without fear. the thing is, when you think about a team, most of the time, it's only a few players. know, most of our members, 99 % of them, are these amazing, incredible people that just want to play soccer. And so

You have to be brave enough to say, this behavior is not tolerated. And then you know what will most likely happen? You'll probably get two more teams out of it because you'll get the team members that aren't on board with the behavior and they want to play so they start their own team.

Lance (25:52.696)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah, that all makes sense. I like the way that you're thinking about it. I guess I'm curious to kind of transition because that's a part of the experience. So what are some other things in terms of GSSL that make you guys successful? guess how is the product or the service that you're doing differentiated? It sounds like there's not a ton of competition or a ton of other organizers who are doing the exact same thing and maybe in the same way. I think in most markets,

there's one or two dominant players and then there's lots of smaller type leagues, maybe a facility, runs their own league at their facility. But how do you think about the product itself, the format, it's 11 v 11, the sort of dynamics are these 90 minute matches and you have two hours out there. Like how do you think about, are there playoffs, like sort of the fundamentals of the actual experience and what makes it great versus other options that people have?

Joanne Levy (26:51.974)
So there's a couple answers to that. So the first answer that merely came to my mind is really our staff.

Our staff are incredibly customer service oriented, very loyal. And I know this might sound trite, but we really are a family. They treat every referee, every member as part of the GSSL family. They make sure they're heard, they make sure they feel safe, they make sure that they have a game that they love. So I really want to give credit where credit is due. know, GSSL...

as a volunteer organization probably could have folded a zillion times. It never did. And most of it is because our staff is very much long time and they really believe in the product. They love soccer and they truly treat every single member and referee as the most important person. So I think it really does start there. I think there's this myth that every staff person is replaceable.

In sports organizations, I truly don't believe that. I think it takes a really specific type of person to one, be passionate about the game. I think that's first and foremost, if you're gonna have a great product, you need people that are passionate about the product you're offering. We happen to be offering soccer. We all love soccer, right? So every day we come to work, it doesn't feel like work. And that's what sports really is, right? You know, we're not necessarily saving lives in the legitimate sense.

We might be because people of people's mental health and community and all that, but it's the love of the game. And that absolutely infiltrates for my staff down to the members. So my staff, because my staff is so good, they're really good at looking at, what is needed, right? So most of the time I would say, and I don't want to speak for my staff because they might have very different answers and they're a bit more experienced specifically with GSSL members.

Joanne Levy (28:51.75)
But one of the things that I've noticed is skill level is really important. Now, a lot of times being a good sportsmanship is you focus on the effort, not necessarily the results, right? But our members are really playing competitive soccer. So that's why we have four divisions within each league. And we're very purposeful about how we align those teams. We don't want teams coming in and beating everyone 10 to zero.

We want it to be competitive. We want people to feel like they're playing a really good game and the skill levels match. So first and foremost, even after scheduling, we spend a lot of time making sure that teams are evenly matched. We also do not shy away from changing that. So for example, a lot of our teams literally have been with us since 1999. I mean, we just had someone call in, you know,

and say, you still have my card from 1999? No, no dear, we don't. So they want, they come to GSL because they want a good controlled game. So one would be skill level is definitely superior than I think most recreational leagues. And now that matters for us, that may not matter for another recreational league and that's totally okay. We have decided that we want to be

Lance (29:52.057)
You

Joanne Levy (30:18.808)
the best of the best in terms of recreational offering. So a lot of our members, they're either played pro, they're college players, they're of a very specific caliber of skill level. Now, that doesn't mean that we don't also offer beginner level, but our skill level is important. And that's for us, right? So like, for example, our competitor league, they just want people to play, right? And to be honest, that's where I would probably play.

I wish I could play at GSF, but I'm like a mom. It's just different, right? And so we definitely focus on skill and then we match up our leagues depending on that. We also, it was important for us to have an offering almost every day of the week. As adults, people are super busy. They have different times that they can make it. And so we very much wanted to make sure that

almost every day there was a game that could be played. We work only, something that's different for us is we work only with team managers. So for example, when there's a registration, the team manager will pay and then they will manage their team. So a lot of times we don't actually, you know, it's only because my staff is so good, but for the most part, we don't necessarily need to know the individuals on a team. We go by teams. And so,

Lance (31:20.984)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joanne Levy (31:46.402)
From an operations standpoint, that's a lot, you know, managing 110 teams versus 4 ,800 individuals, that is a lot easier operationally. A lot of leagues don't do it like that. A lot of them, they have the individuals sign up, and then they kind of place them with different teams. We work with the team as the whole.

Lance (32:07.204)
So do you have free agents that you allow to sign up solo as well and you place them on Teams?

Joanne Levy (32:11.009)
Yep, so we have free agents. Full disclosure, in fact, if you have any one that has figured this out, because our teams are based on skill level, a lot of times it's hard to place free agents because we don't necessarily know them. So one of things that we want to start doing is have turnout events where we basically have the free agents come, we have the team managers come, so that they're placed on the right team. You know, it's not fun if you're a 25 year old looking to, you know,

really play competitively and then you're placed on maybe a 55 and older. So we wanna make sure that people get what they want. And we have offerings for all of it, for beginners, for expert, for modified, for women. So our bread and butter is also that we have a very diverse product offering. And it's all full goal, 90 minutes. We stick very much to traditional soccer.

Some of the ways that we want to grow though is maybe doing AVA or small goals or walking soccer. One the things that I believe very strongly is because I love soccer, I don't want to keep it to cisgender, able -bodied humans. I want it to be different abilities to be welcome at GSSL. So that's where there's things like walking soccer, which...

I don't think it's gonna be a product for us, but it is something that we looked into because that kind of levels the playing field. It's still soccer, but it's because of where we're at and we're still pretty competitive, it's not a good product for us. But a co -ed team might be, we really wanna target a younger demographic as well. something like alumni teams, working with, Seattle has a ton of

really high caliber colleges and high schools where they have really strong alumni, creating alumni teams. Like for example, we have Seattle U, they've really gone up the ranks in GSSL. And so creating more kind of college -based teams would also be a way that we wanna grow into the younger demographic, but within our products.

Lance (34:29.701)
Yeah. Okay. You mentioned a number of things along that track of like what makes it great from the staff to the sort of competitive balance and, and, and sort of beyond, but I have questions about each of those sort of pieces. The competitive balance, what do you limit your divisions to? How many teams?

Joanne Levy (34:49.693)
We don't we we we basically Yeah, so the way we do it is we and Kelly my operations manager she could speak to this much better because she is like a wizard at this basically we over Registration and we will take as many teams as want to play it could we our sweet spot right now is pretty much from 140 to 180 teams that's sort of the average that we're we're going working towards but we really want to grow that

Lance (34:51.94)
This is whoever.

Joanne Levy (35:20.124)
Then, and so our registration system is pretty robust. So it's not like, you put in your name and you're registered. We ask you to focus on what level you're at, what type of team you're at. So we really try and get to know our customers through the intake process even before they register. And so then once we have all the teams, we look at, okay, maybe there's four teams for D1, but maybe there's 12 teams for D1.

We also, because we have such a loyal customer base, we look at historical context. So for example, I'm going to give a shout out to one of our teams, Riot, they've been with us, I mean, I think for almost like 20 years or something. And they are very loyal, and they are amazing. So we look at, okay, did they win playoffs last year? Did they not? And a lot of times we get pushback.

You know, cause we'll see that this team is winning and they need to be upgraded to a different division, but they don't want to be right. They want to keep winning and you're upgraded. You have more competition, but it's, it's creating a fine line between making sure everyone has a good experience and making sure our individual members are happy.

Lance (36:25.343)
Yeah. Right.

Lance (36:37.358)
Got it, okay. So you pull all these teams and then you're really kind of going one by one to place them. Four teams is probably the minimum division that you do over a what week season?

Joanne Levy (36:46.396)
No, not not four teams. It could be 12 teams. It just.

Lance (36:49.466)
What's like the minimum of the size of division can be? Because obviously you don't want the same teams playing each other.

Joanne Levy (36:52.847)
Four. Yeah, it'd be four. But some of our older demographics, I think we have three and then, you know, they'll have a buy or something like that. pretty much, and that would be only in a certain season, you know, maybe when it's slow, like winter, because winter in Seattle sucks. Yeah.

Lance (37:07.908)
Got it. Right. And there's four seasons. So these are like eight week seasons with Playoff or something like that. OK. That makes sense. So then I want to go back to the staff piece though as well because you talked about having a great staff and some of that sounds like they were just there when you got there. So.

Joanne Levy (37:14.094)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Joanne Levy (37:27.81)
Yeah, they all were there. Well, actually, no, two of them were there. I hired two new, sorry.

Lance (37:32.856)
Okay, so how does somebody go about building that? You mentioned passion for the sport, people who actually play. You mentioned there's a component of, I guess it's sort an output of them being great, is there's this really great customer service and thoughtfulness. But how do you create that if you're maybe starting new? how do you, I guess, tactically hire somebody? I mean, are you typically gonna put it out to the community of players and say, I would love somebody from this community to play and then...

Joanne Levy (37:39.716)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Lance (38:01.498)
How do you kind of vet them and make sure that they're the right fit? And then do have any thoughts on sort of ensuring that they are a great fit over the course of their first six months or 12 months and when you might want to let someone go versus when you might say, this is a rock star for what I'm looking for. Yeah, so kind of broad, but just tactically, how do you build a great team?

Joanne Levy (38:07.224)
Okay, so this is completely my individual outlook. I don't have a business degree, but I've had a lot of success in building teams in all different environments. So my...

first thing is I hire slow, I fire fast. So I can usually tell within the first 10 seconds if someone is going to be a good fit, not only for me, but for the organization. So I never hire someone that I wouldn't want to have dinner with. If this is a person that I would not welcome into my home, feel safe around my daughter, want to sit down and have a meal with, they don't even get considered.

I know that may not be a popular opinion, but I truly feel a cultural match is really important. I can teach all the tangible skills, right? I can teach our programs. I can teach back ends. know, obviously I'm looking for someone that, you know, is organized, detailed, oriented. I mean, there is certain specifics when it comes to hiring someone, but my most important value is

would I want to sit down with this person and have dinner with them? And I think that people are going to blow me off and say that's ridiculous, but it is so important. You spend so much time at work and especially when you're leading a sports organization and you're on the field and you're playing a game with them. that's, and I'll be honest, that was my before, I knew I was coming into staff that was already there, right? So my fear was, I going to?

even like them, like clearly they can do the job, right? But it's not gonna work if me as the new executive director doesn't get along with them or values aren't aligned. I mean, thankfully they are the best employees I ever could have dreamed of. And so it worked out, but my biggest fear was not can they do the job was, we gonna get along? Are the values that I wanna instill in this organization gonna be able to be done? And so.

Joanne Levy (40:33.972)
I think the easiest first step is when you hire someone and not do like them, not superficial stuff, but can you sit down and have dinner with them? So I think that's the first list, Miss Tess. The second one is I'm old school, right? Like I had three jobs growing up. I'm sort of of the older demographic where I think hard work is so important. I've never been a nine to five.

Like I'm nine to midnight, whatever takes the job, whatever gets the job done. So that's the second thing I'm looking at someone. are they gonna be like, it's five o 'clock, but a team is complaining. So what is their work ethic? I think that's super important. The work ethic definitely has to align. And then with that, inextricably tied is loyalty.

Or have they been loyal to their past organizations? Have they been a loyal employee? That is really important to me as a leader. And then do they have the tangible skills, right? So baseline, I need you to know how to write really well. I need you to know Excel. I need you to have some sort of thinking. And so, and then your resume, right? But I'll be honest, again, like I am...

I may now I went to an Ivy League school, you I have all the pedigree. That is not what I look for. I want to know, have you ever been a waitress? Because no one can multitask like a waiter or waitress. No one has customer service like a waiter or waitress. So I asked these sort of questions to me. That's more important than if you had a PhD, especially when you're talking about a sports organization where emotion is so visceral. So I feel like those baseline of

Lance (42:14.638)
Yep.

Joanne Levy (42:31.677)
who are you as a leader and what do you look for in employees, I think is really important to building a team. And that may be different. know, someone after me could come in and be like, I only care if people have PhDs, I only care if they've been professional soccer players, that's not me, right? And I think because I focused on core values, I think I've built really great teams. And then I look at our organization as a microcosm of a sports team, right? Everyone has different...

different roles to play. know, who's going to be my center mid that's going to distribute and do a great job and pull everyone together? You know, who's going to be my forward that's going to score the goals and get me revenue? You know, like, and so I really try and think from a strategic point of view, focused on what the organization is actually doing. And then I just look at tactically. So for example, coming into GSSL, we had two amazing employees.

they had no job description. They didn't have sort of the quantitative piece that all employees need to feel valued, to be understood. So I right away wrote up very specific job descriptions that match what our competitive marketplace looks like. So now we have an operations manager and a business manager. And not only now do they have roles that are clearly defined, they can grow, right? Maybe they'll be a director.

For example, my operations manager, she's also a mom. I'm telling you, I mean, the idiosyncrasies that she has as a mom, I see them in her as an employee. And she, the world is her oyster. You know, she looks at herself as this, know, GSL was one of her first full -time jobs, but all her values as a mom and as a GSL employee, I think she could literally run a sports organization one day.

And so I want to set them up for success even to their chagrin, right? It's like, okay, you may not have big goals for you, but I do. So I think it's important to also have a vision for each of your employees. The other thing that GSSA had never done, which is so incredibly impressive, they've never had marketing. They've never advertised, they've never had marketing. Now that's my background. So, you know, one selfishly like,

Lance (44:37.624)
Yeah.

Joanne Levy (44:56.793)
I wanna do cool campaigns. I want the world to know about GSSL. So what I did was I hired a marketing manager that I, from my past, who could design, who thinks like me, who thinks creatively, who's not a sports person. But I loved that because she brings a whole new vision to what I'm trying to do. So now we have email newsletters for the first time. We're trying to do our social media.

so that it's really sort of a younger demographic focus. I think a lot of times sports organizations ignore things like social media, email marketing, things that other organizations outside of sports have as just a staple. And that's a huge miss. mean, marketing is so important, even if it's just to make your community feel heard and seen. I hired a marketing manager, and then I hired someone that is

Lance (45:50.191)
Yep.

Joanne Levy (45:56.121)
so much more qualified than I am. Because one of the things that I also think in creating a great team is you have to be really uber self -aware and ask yourself, where are your holes? And my holes are I'm great at building teams, I have really good business acumen, I really know creative marketing. You give me an Excel sheet and I might have a seizure. I am not the numbers girl.

I think in numbers, but I'm not the person that's gonna be able to create these amazing spreadsheets and really look at financial analysis from a purely accounting perspective. So I knew that that was a hole for me. And I knew as an executive director, that was a really important piece that I need to be responsible for. So I hired someone that is way smarter than I am. He was a CFO in his old life. He's retired, but now he's our financial analyst. And it's so it's like we have this

perfect team now because, you know, being self -aware and humble is really important. And I feel like they fill the holes that I have and then I'm able to fill the holes that they have.

Lance (47:06.958)
Yep. Great answer. Yeah. A lot of pieces. No, no, no. wasn't. No, I think that that's like, you know, if you're in that spot where you're trying to build a team and you're trying to think, how do I make this, you know, do this the right way? And that's a lot of, that's a lot of good stuff. I did notice. go ahead. Yeah.

Joanne Levy (47:10.156)
I'm sorry, I like I'm rambling. You can just cut me off.

Joanne Levy (47:22.944)
Yeah. And then can I add one thing to that? The other thing is, like, you're going to make a mistake, right? You're going to hire someone that you really like and so fire fast because it can get toxic really quick. And as much as it may hurt, as much as it sucks to fire, you need to just do it because one toxic person will hurt the entire team.

Lance (47:36.686)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Levy (47:49.374)
And of course, follow correct protocol. I really believe in that, like giving people chances, making sure transparent communication is there. They know what the issues are, but don't let it fester too long.

Lance (48:01.806)
Yeah, yeah, would echo that for sure. And another one that's hard, like letting go of a team within your leagues. It's the same thing. It could be really, really painful. Awesome. Okay. I think we're running up on time. Are there any last kind of bits that you'd like to share or anything?

Joanne Levy (48:03.521)
Mm

Joanne Levy (48:11.156)
Yeah.

Joanne Levy (48:20.33)
The last thing I would want to say is just, I feel like it's really important to have more women and marginalized communities in this space. I think sports, especially now as youth are looking at it as a way into expensive colleges, it's become sort of this privileged thing that is too precious for it to be that. And I think really diversifying

people in leadership in sports organizations from the top down will not just help leadership, but will help be a trickle effect to really cure all the ailments of sports organizations.

Lance (49:00.046)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. that's, I it can be a difficult thing to do, but sounds like you guys are doing it. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Okay, well, thanks for your time. I think this is gonna be a good one.

Joanne Levy (49:06.73)
We're trying.

Joanne Levy (49:13.534)
All right, awesome. Thank you so much. I'm so honored that you even asked me and I really, it's a privilege and I hope our organizations work together more.

Lance (49:20.73)
Totally, sounds great, thank you.

Joanne Levy (49:22.11)
Okay. Thank you.